Syracuse Ska Forum

this a question to all the bands out there....what do you think is the ultimate show killer when you're on stage? this has been burning in my head all night because last night we played out in the middle of no where and played a really good set...sadly, the crowd were not into that kind of music and didn't dance or even get out of their seats. worst part was there were these blinding lights at the edge of the stage and i couldn't see. well my opinion is tha a dead crowd is a show killer...what do you think?

when the imature singer for the opening band throws a water bottle at the crowd and it explodes all over the sound board creating 30 minutes of dead time almost preventing the headliner from playing. this does not make for a happy crowd, happy venue, and especially a happy headliner.

Well, I'm gathering so far these are personal anecdotes. So, I'll add one myself ...

I'd say when the leader of the band gets on the mic and vents their anger at the unresponsiveness of the crowd. I've seen that a couple times now and it very understandably makes the situation a lot worse. It's gotta be one of the all time worst things a band can do on stage ...

As to the Buffalo show -- I wasn't there, so I have no idea what went on -- when I've been at shows where the crowd was unresponsive, it's usually some combination of things. But I've seen many bands overcome it, by acknowledging whatever the problem is and breaking the ice with the crowd. Even if you're unsure what the problem is, you can still break the tension in several ways. But it seems most bands freeze up and pretend there isn't a problem, which of course is even worse than doing nothing ...

breaking the ice didn't work on these kids...they were too embaressed to dance..i heard it from 20 kids. i thought it was funny...we ended up having our horn section play in the crowd and walk up and down the asles.(by the way, this place was an old theatre house w/ lots of seats. really cool looking though!) oh well can't win them all...

Since I've been involved with ska, this has been a very common problem. I've found a couple good ways to fix it. The best method is to bring your own posse that loves to dance to your band. I find that always gets things going nicely. Barring that, its usually obvious who wants to dance -- it's usually the kids with lots of checkerboards and/or pins and whatnot. You gotta encourage THOSE kids to get things started (BTW, don't be sheepish to plan that before your set, honestly). And yeah, having members of the band jump offstage and dance themselves can work wonders.

It's SUPER IMPORTANT to get kids dancing on the very first song, which is why you need a good danceable beat on that one (many bands don't play good dance music, which is understandably why no one dances). Because I've found the longer the set goes and no one is dancing, the more self-conscious the kids get about that. It just gets progressively harder and harder during the set to even get them started.

You also need to get the kids right upfront from the very first song. I've been criticized a million times for literally asking kids to move upfront before I even intro a band, but WHOA, it makes a HUGE difference in how the band and crowd interact, including the liklihood that spontaneous dancing will break out (and how much the crowd likes the band too). I've noticed that the bands typically light up when the crowd is right in front of them as well. It's never been clear to me why more bands don't realize that and ALWAYS ask the crowd to move upfront before they start playing. It seems such a big no-brainer.

Lastly, I've also noticed that bands and crowds interact much more when the band has befriended kids before the set. It creates the situation where now the kids feel, "these guys are my friends now" and that makes them very supportive of the band and much more likely to dance to them. Again, it seems so obvious, but it seems like most bands don't really get that concept, for some reason. "Hey, these guys really seem cool" makes a big, big difference in how motivated kids are before the set. I remember how Westbound Train did that at the very first Westcott show (the same one where they later played acoustic as well) and suddenly kids that were hostile to trad ska were openly supportive at the very beginning of the set.

Just some observations from someone who has been to a lot of ska shows ...

i usually dont like to stereotype people, but i guess i have to this time. the majority of kids we played in front of were mainstream/emo/hardcore-wannabe kids right off the hot topic convayer belt. i dont know many kids who wear dead kennedy patches next to the used patches(kid didn't know a single dead kennedy song by the way). pretty much all of the kids there told us they never really heard of ska at all save for reel big fish. lets just say the headlining band played thrice,all american rejects, and taking back sunday covers an were loved by all.

Well, then you already have your answer then, right?????

Danny, you're right on the money about danceability. There is an art to putting together songs and setlists that leave the crowd begging for more.

Sometimes these things take time, though, especially at certain venues. The Hot Steppers at the Rochester Dinosaur, RazSum and MGM at The Keg, and Mrs. Skannotto at Elixir last night all didn't get really cranked until late in the show. All those shows were at venues where part or all of the crowd was unfamiliar with the band playing, and were either regular customers or out for a lark.

By all means, mingle in the crowd beforehand, ask them to move up before starting, but if they don't respond, let it be. It's important for interaction to be interactive. The band wants the crowd to respond, so the band has to respond to the crowd, otherwise it's "We are going to do what we want and you will do as we say." As an attendee, I feel slightly annoyed at multiple exhortations to come out and dance, even if I'm already dancing and no one else is. On the flip side, it shows class to recognize the first intrepid souls to hit the dance floor. (I'm prejudiced in this case; I frequently am among the icebreakers)

Back to mingling, there's another benefit - it's an opportunity to gauge the crowd's temperament.

So know your venue, know your crowd, and get up there and rock out. Reaching a crowd comes down to doing your best and having fun. The best shows I've been to are where the bands are completely absorbed in the act of making music and/or having an absolute blast performing.

I didn't start really getting into skanking at shows until fairly recently. Just this year, really.. I'm actually more of a stand off to the side and just tap my foot to the beat, enjoy the music and smile at other people dancing, and sing my heart out, type of person.

But, yeah, I think one of the main reasons I never skanked before was because I was so self-conscious. But then, I've gained a LOT of self-confidence this past year or so, and I've learned better than I knew before not to care what other people think of me when I'm out having fun.

Even having been friends with RazSum for years before I ever got out to see them, I rarely skank at their shows because I really just enjoy watching the band. Ya know?

EDIT: Thinking about it, the fact that I've been going out to jazz shows and blues shows and stuff like that much longer than I've been going out to ska shows has probably played a big part in the way I enjoy live music as well. I've been into jazz and blues my entire life, and hanging out at jazz shows, it's usually really low key with everyone just letting the music flow through them and tapping their feet. And at blues gigs it's lots of biker types, along with various others, and there's dancing, but it's not my style of dancing.

Boy, have I mentioned that Miss E is my hero? I idolize that woman..

"danceable" or not...... skank to it i shall.......

ive gotta say that playing crappy is a show killer for me. even if everything else goes wrong, if i play well i can leave a show feeling ok.

We were playing a show not too long ago, and towards the end of our really long set, a fight broke out between these two guys... now you have to realize that for two hours leading up to this, we were playing danceable music and preaching to everyone to get along and just have fun with everything you do.

And then these two dudes start getting into it, in the middle of one of our songs, right in front of us, and it was the biggest buzzkill ever. We were so out of it for the last few songs because we were so upset, we kinda went through the motions :/ That was a show killer.

Other show killers include: Equiptment shitting the bed unexpectedly, and mean bands who think they're famous. Thats my short list... expect the discertation to be compiled soon and published by the Hal Leonard company soon.

If I'd been on stage, I'd have stopped the set and straightened it out. That probably killed it both for your band AND the crowd. And if they'd shaked hands in front of everyone, the crowd would have cheered. At the very least, someone in the crowd should have intervened. That's my opinion, anyway.


Not sure if anyone noticed, but I said nothing about the band exhorting the crowd from the stage to dance. I find it annoying, because its like begging. And begging over and over is super annoying.

Like I said before, having your posse in the audience helps a lot. 12 of us got a crowd of 1,200 into a set once for Too Hectic down in State College PA and created the illusion that there were 100+ of their fans there. And you're right, gauging the audience beforehand is key. If they seem totally foreign to what you're trying to do, why not start off with some covers to warm them up to you? Any decent bar band does that.

Good comments ...

thoughts after skimming this:

this is why people need to go to shows with friends. when i go with only one or two people, it's often a situation where i don't want to be the first person to start dancing. send me to a jersey show where i know 15-20 people, and we're always the ones to open a circle up and start kids dancing. it's a comfort level thing. interestingly enough, i have a feeling this board itself should help with this because a lot of us will (or already do) know each other.

another thought, my favorite thing i've ever seen a band do when they are far from home and no one knows who they are. ASOB came out on stage in CT and refused to start their set until the entire crowd started dancing. It was quite amusing. Another time, they came out on Long Island at home blasting 80s music over the PA and again, refused to start their set until everyone started dancing. PRICELESS. Occasionally, they make you jitterbug to Piss Off.

Right on.

Even if you play shitty.
It's a shitty crowd.
Shit breaks.
Or, you step in a pile of shit before you have to play.

Just be thankful that you're in a band and that you're actually playing shows.



And as for the 'hot topic kids'... DUDE, it's kinda expected at shows. Especially when you get out to the smaller towns where the only thing they've GOT to go on is what MTV and Hot Topic tell them (the same goes for Sweeden too)...

But, don't stereotype those kids. Our favorite place to play was Ogdensburg, NY. 200 kids of all shapes, sizes, likes, dislikes would come out... dance... and have a f*ck BLAST! Even though the only ska they've ever heard has been Less Than Jake and Straighter Than Pete.