Syracuse Ska Forum

There is a guy listed on their contact info..if you don't get a response that way I can find out who to contact. I emailed this guy Aaron (I think?) a while ago, but he didn't get back to me...not sure what the deal is.
-Mike

What about the Annex Coffehouse? I realize that it's an EXTREMELY small venue, but it might be good for the really small shows, like the acoustic stuff (wink wink nudge nudge.) I mean, I was talking to Dan of Magic Goat about it, and I can contact people there to ask about it, but I'm pretty sure it didn't cost them anything for the space. I'll call and ask, because if we move those couches off to the side, then we might be okay. There were, what, 100ish kids there for the last show there? Maybe if we look at drawing around 60-75ish it'd be more comfortable..

Umm. I can call Paula again at Wa-noa, but you and I have talked about this before Danny. She says that if we want to book a show like 3 weeks in advance, we just have to call and she'll see what she can do. It'd have to be later at night though, since she has leagues or whatever there for golfing, but it can be done, it's just a matter of finding a time that works for everything.

I really like the CommonGrounds in Caz. I'd be willing to drive out there for a show if we ever wanted to do one there. I have friends who have played there a few times, and it's always been a blast.

Something I've also noticed, the people at Trapper's here in East Syracuse seem REALLY cool about shows. I've seen a few bands play there now, and then there was The Verbs playing Wednesday at Ben's going away party. They have volley ball there a few nights a week, but I asked a girl about shows there and she gave me the name of the woman to call. She said the venue doesn't usually cost money, but I'm not sure if we could charge a cover fee. Honestly though, if the venue isn't gonna cost money, and the bands don't mind playing just to play, then it shouldn't be a problem. Danny, I'll make some calls and stuff this coming week, and then next weekend when I'm back on a computer I'll let you know what I've come up with.

Have we thought about trying Downtown Manhattan's in Hanover Square? I'll call there an ask too. I'm friends with a couple bands who've played there, and RazSum has played there too. It's easily my favorite bar in Syracuse.

Wow. You guys are all really thinking hard on this and that's exciting. Allow me to make some comments and ask some questions ...


Outdoor shows are rough if the weather gets stormy and its probably already too late to get any late summer dates, but if any of you wanna check into that, I'm game to try it . . .



What do you mean you're not "scene enough to go"? Sorry, I'm unclear on that comment. But yeah, basements I'm also open to and we might actually be using one in a church very, very soon -- would that wierd anyone out using a basement for a show? We'll cover the church angle later, because its anything but a "normal" church anyways . . .



As for the dive bar suggestion, yeah, we used to use The Stag downtown in the very way you suggested, but those bars still want to at least sell liquor and they'd want at least 18+ to keep their liability down (16+ is legal for bars, but the liability insurance and fines if a 16 yr old gets caught drinking are quite steep). We also tried OPL (which is maybe closed now??), but the scariness of the neighborhood killed shows there.


I've never heard anyone call that a "good" location before, especially for anyone walking. I'd be curious how many others feel that way. I know the art students and punks have used it, but I didn't think many others would be open to that. Heck, if you like Spark, why not also use Onajava Cafe on West Onondaga St near downtown? Its small, but its a nice space inside and the guy who owns it is very cool. He likes to do mostly jazz shows there, but he's open to other ideas (although anything remotely punky probably wouldn't fly).


Okay, I'm confused. Is the Annex bigger or smaller than Coffee Pavilion? Because I can't imagine 100 kids at Coffee Pavilion. 50 kids there is crazy enough. But more acoustic, sure. And we'll talk more about Wa-Noa.


I love it too, but they seem pretty picky who can use it and how. And I seriously question how many non-Cazenovia kids will go there. But sure, they've hosted ska before and its always been a good time, but just mostly with local Caz kids. Its not really convenient for most everyone else.


Cool. Let me know what you find out.


We're gonna try that approach at Coffee Pavilion and see how it flies. Obviously, its very limiting -- because there's no way to pay out of town bands at all. Nor can you even pay someone to bring and run a PA. Most bars do live music to sell more liquor and its customary to share part of the bar proceeds with the band. But our bands aren't at that stage yet, although we'll be trying that approach this fall with RazSum and The Benefits, most likely as 18+ and no cover charge.


Its also a "closed" venue. Hollerback books the room exclusively, but they work closely with RazSum, so sure, we might work something out. But Manhattans is strictly 21+ at all times -- except apparently for you.

All good suggestions. You guys rock!!!!!!!

The Spark is cool and Rich tried to use the Onajava Cafe but it was right after that big club fire so all these mommys and daddys were freaking out about it's size and fire codes.

Well, Onajava Cafe had a very different owner back then and Rich wanted to use the basement for punk shows. The basement isn't gonna happen, nor are punk shows. But the main space is much nicer now and is still a coffeehouse, which means all ages (yeah!). The new owner is a cool middle-aged African-American guy very into jazz and r'n'b and most of his clientele is like him, which might make for an interesting mix. Like, I'd love to try someone like Westbound Train there, for example.

But that stretch of Onondaga Street has a horrible reputation. As does Kennedy Square, which is kitty-corner to Spark. Neither bothers me personally, but I'd be curious how others might feel about those spaces, especially after dark, most notably parents of young, naive suburban kids. You'd be shocked how many of those parents are jumpy about the Westcott (they get tons of calls) and that's a much safer-looking environment, ya know?

I just don't know ... so someone more like 15-16 tell me, okay?

Well the show that Rocker put there because the furnace screwed him over did great. Lots of little christian kids who never go to shows anywhere but the furnace. No one really approached from Kennedy Square or anywhere, no one except the show kids were walking around.

No kidding. When I came out for Skarmy, I thought I'd died and gone to Suburbia.

Really? I've been to Manhattans TONS of times. Let me think.. Yeah, probably 8 times now, and I've never had a problem with it, even a little. I never even get IDed, and I honestly don't think that I look older than my age, especially now with the braces (gah, I hate them so much).

At any rate. I'll check up on those venues that I talked about. And I'll call around and ask Derek about booking at Manhattans. I'm friends with a couple other bands who have played there fairly frequently, and I know they put on acoutic acts as well (hehehehehehehe) so I'll do some poking around and see what comes up.

Regarding the Annex. Think about it, maybe I just think that Coffee Pavilion is bigger because it's longer? It's more of a hallway style, as opposed to Annex's.. squareness. Annex has a table coming out a couple walls, and then two couches, and then some chairs and other coffee tables, so that's probably what made the place seem so much smaller. It just felt like there wasn't enough floor room, ya know? Not to mention the floor was bouncing up and down like CRAZY when kids actually started dancing. Seriously, I thought we were gonna cave in. The look on the girl's face behind the counter though was priceless..

Okay, after tomorrow you won't be hearing from me again until next weekend. But I'll do some research this week and let you know what comes up.

regarding the annex coffe house...it is a little smaller than the coffee pavilion. howvever, on magic goats show there, 114 people paid to get in through out the evening. its nice cause the owner will take a cut of the door if it is a big show or nothing if turn out is low. also, bands get comp beverages, which is sweet. there is also in an house PA that is great for the space but last i knew the owner had no mics or cables.

on the down side, a punky show with a low turn out will piss him off. 2 of the 3 bands when we played there played louder and more energeticly than he wanted... but i dont think he minded cause tons of kids showed and he got a cut. also, drummers are not allowed to use toms.

all in all, the owner ethan really wants to do lots of shows there so anyone that has interest should stop by and talk to him. if you can get a band from fm to play with you youre bound to get an atleast 'ok' turn out.

Hey Dan, I'm guessing you're reading this up in the Adirondacks, right? How is it up there right now????

I had a long talk with Alex tonight about using the Annex at least as a back-up option for a couple of shows coming up before the end of July. My first choice is still the new venue, but that's not finalized yet and we're running out of time. My second choice is Wa-Noa, but we suspect golf season will rule that out. So, we may resort to the Annex sooner than anyone expects ...

Alex also was under the impression Magic Goat might be out of commission for the summer. At least email me an update on that, ok???

the adirondacks are great. im glad to hear that you may use the annex...i really like it in there and the owner makes doing show really reasonable. ill get a longer email to you soon.

The quotes got all f*ck up so I'll just write this as a new message. As far as outdoor shows, yeah I see the potential issues with that. Like I said, it's not something I had any specific locations in mind for, I just wanted to throw the idea out there..actually after I posted that I saw another post where someone wanted to do a BBQ thing, guess I'm not the only one thinking that way.

As far as these basement shows or smaller shows in general and being scene and whatnot, they make me feel a little uncomfortable. I can't help but feel like everyone else knows each other and I don't ever feel especially welcome at these types of things. It's not that big of a deal, but it keeps me from going to certain things sometimes. I wasn't about to show up to that Mike Park show by myself. I imagine other people feel the same way, whether they'll admit it or not.

You say basements are an option, but it was also mentioned somewhere that there is concern about fire codes, parents etc. Personally I don't think I'd be a big fan of having my kid go to some random basement for a show, if you're trying to cater to kids. I don't think there is ever going to be a perfect balance between a parent/kid friendly venue and a place which wants to make a profit off alcohol. I don't remember The Stag but I think I've seen someone say it's now Half Penny? I'm familiar with the place and the stage is in that back section, could we position a bouncer at that doorway in between and only allow 21+ into the bar area? Seems like that could work. There is that outside door right there that could allow kids to bypass the bar entirely.

Spark is walking distance to SU, as well as walking distance to downtown (more or less). What's wrong with it's location? There is a parking lot, albeit not very large..plus at night there is a ton of parking on Fayette. I work in that area and have never had a problem. If you're after SU kids, there is a bus from the campus down to the Drama dept which is maybe 2 blocks from Spark.

I'm not at all familiar with Onajava Cafe, no offense but it sounds like it will be short lived like most of the other places that have been mentioned. Like I said before, I think you should take advantage of any and all venues that are welcoming to the cause of having shows. You're not going to appease parents and bar owners at the same time.

-Mike

Okay, this is an interesting comment . . . you feel more comfortable at a big show where you know no one than a smaller show? That kinda puzzles me, because I've always found it much easier to meet people at smaller events than bigger ones. Or do you just mean it's easier to hide at the bigger shows? That I'd agree with, but I'm disappointed if that's really how you're viewing it. I made some cool new friends at the Mike Park event and had you come, you could have too. Likewise, I ended up going to Ska Summit in Las Vegas by myself, stayed at a hostel where I knew no one and made a ton of new friends. The nature of ska is quite friendly. Come knowing no one, leave with lots of new friends.


I understand your point here. Comfort levels are touchy things. I went to a cool little basement show at the old "punk house" in Oswego once, in the kind of situation that parents have nightmares about. As long as we're attracting a lot of 15 & 16 yr olds right now, those seem like bad options for us, at least if we want to keep the parents onboard. I'm quite sensitive to that issue from lots of past experience with it.


Okay fine, but what's the venue's incentive to go to that much bother? Until you address that issue, you won't get venues like that to agree to it. They don't make money directly off the 18-20 yr olds either, but at least the 18-20s attract the older 21+ crowd. Under 18s drive off the 21+ crowd, which is a huge disincentive to the venue to do what you're suggesting ...


If it doesn't bother anyone, then fine. But DO NOT walk down East Fayette Street at night if you have any sense whatsoever ...

Well, I would feel more comfortable at a public place big or small than I would in someone's living room. I don't want to feel like I'm intruding on someone's space. I've met plenty of people at bigger shows, it doesn't make any difference to me.



The venue's incentive, if any, would be that worst case scenario their business in the bar remains the same as a normal night. At best, a few of the over 21 people buy drinks and/or they get a cut of the door from the show. Work something out to sell some sodas or something for the under-21 kids..that's still good profit for them. If they were trusting enough, you or a volunteer could check IDs at the doorway between rooms. To me this seems like a good idea, if the bar would go along with it. Half Penny has a perfect setup for this where you could restrict the bar-area to over 21 easily. If you had this on a slower night, I don't see how it would drive away many people. On a Friday or Saturday, forget about it..but say sunday through tuesday or wednesday they don't have much to lose. The ONLY issue is that the men's room is in the bar area. Maybe if the ladies room is a single everyone could just share. I don't know.

I think Spark is a viable option too, hell, that neighorhood isn't much worse than around Planet 505..
-Mike

Liquor licenses are very valuable things that very few venues are willing to entrust to virtual strangers. I proposed something along those lines to the management when it was The Stag and again as the Half Penny and neither one was willing to seriously consider it. Plus, you still can't have under 16 going up to the bar, even for a soda, and the 21+ crowd still gets weirded out seeing a bunch of high school kids at a bar.


OUCH. That's MY neighborhood around 505 and I'd beg to differ on that comment, sorry.